Comments on Tory Bear - right-wing political gossip: The Bear Necessities – Sara Scarlett

Honestly enough I didn't think my comment woul...

2009-09-09T20:31:16.998+01:00

Honestly enough I didn't think my comment would be posted.

But woah, how delusional are you guys...

Yep. We should all be Liberatns...our bad.

The world would be so peaceful. Still think you're be contrary not joining the Tory party..

Nice interview. As for trying to recruit her, wel...

2009-06-14T19:56:18.218+01:00

Nice interview.

As for trying to recruit her, well, maybe we Libertarians will do better?

DK

David, I can assure you that Sara is certainly not...

2009-06-11T15:59:33.146+01:00

David, I can assure you that Sara is certainly not looking to upset anyone. She is, admittedly, blunt with her views - and I think being honest and upfront with opinions does get things done, certainly more than being diplomatic for the sake of career gains.

It's all very well making big sweeping stateme...

2009-06-11T15:30:00.906+01:00

It's all very well making big sweeping statements about ideological positions, accusing others of not believing in what they claim to, but when you get into the real world of politics this doesn't mean anything. Sara may be proud of upsetting as many people as she can, but you simply can't get away with this if you want to get things done.

"Shurely dear fella, maggie thatcher was pret...

2009-06-10T22:37:41.876+01:00

"Shurely dear fella, maggie thatcher was pretty liberterian with her views on 'there is no society'??"

libertarians are not tories because they marry social and economic liberalism. margaret thatcher was uber-tory because her liberalism only extended to giving her mates free rein to maximise their profits with no consequence, which in my opinion does not really constitute economic liberalism at all, and which has created a horrendously flawed model badly-copied by new labour cretins to put us in the position we are today. leaving aside the above-alluded fact that all the main three parties are coalitions of necessity, libertarians are currently far more at home in the lib dems because of the conservative social policies that the tories still espouse. this may change as people get younger; young tories have grown up in the same Brave New World as their peers, and as such will undoubtedly be less inclined to the homophobia and racism of their party elders, so who knows about the future, there will probably be more Sara Scarletts and Edwin Loos straddling the tory-libdem divide, but for the moment i'll stick with lib dems thanks. any party with nicholas soames and julian brazier as MPs is not for anyone with an ounce of respect for freedom of lifestyle.

Voice of Treason: if you're going to call peop...

2009-06-10T19:14:16.873+01:00

Voice of Treason: if you're going to call people idiots, it's helpful if you get your facts right as otherwise it can look a little foolish ... and indeed in your case you've got the facts about the supposed sale and loss wrong. Oops :-)

rantersparadise, Are you drunk? The biggest r...

2009-06-10T18:51:45.800+01:00

rantersparadise,

Are you drunk?
The biggest robber of citizens are governments, especially left wing ones. A free market is based on respect for private property.

I see Roger Thornhill has replied while I was typi...

2009-06-10T17:35:47.931+01:00

I see Roger Thornhill has replied while I was typing.

What he said ^^^^^.

@rantersparadise "Why don't you guys joi...

2009-06-10T17:32:50.741+01:00

@rantersparadise

"Why don't you guys join the Tories??"

Ahhhhhhh, the good old fall back position of SDPers. Throw in several ludicrous strawman arguments, plus a good dose of obnoxious ad hominem. Lovely stuff :-)

I'd love a good old fashioned dust up, but I hardly think TB's blog is the appropriate venue. Name the arena and I'll debate you there.

Get your facts right, Scarlett - the Lib Dems sold...

2009-06-10T17:27:17.926+01:00

Get your facts right, Scarlett - the Lib Dems sold Cowley Street around 2002/3, to raise some capital.

They now rent their own building back, making a net loss.

Idiots.

More, more, more, a wannabe politician who hasn...

2009-06-10T17:18:32.859+01:00

More, more, more, a wannabe politician who hasn't had truth and honesty drummed out of her yet.

Good luck to her.

Oh, I fancy a fisk. Ranter: Wayne, this is wha...

2009-06-10T17:06:10.101+01:00
Oh, I fancy a fisk.

Ranter:
Wayne, this is what I don't understand about you 'liberterians' all theory and no practical suggestions or EVIDENCE that it's worked to back you up!!

Socialism has no practical evidence that it has EVER worked, despite destroying wealth and happiness around the globe over and over again. Britain was pretty Libertarian in the past, HK is Minarchist (if not fully libertarian) and the beauty of Libertarianism is you lot can collectivise VOLUNTARILY, but not be "free" to use coercion on others. That last bit is the bit you guys really hate, right?

Why don't you guys join the Tories?? You are more right the centre, actually there is NOTHING centre about you lot! It's rather childish that just because you share the same few letters 'liberal', you stay in a party that, gulp, cares about SOCIETY because DUH we have to live in it!

LIbertarianism does not really work on a Left-Right axis. As for "cares", don't you mean "interferes"? Don't you mean "take from the few to give to the many", those "many" being your choice, not the few who pay for it all?

Shurely dear fella, maggie thatcher was pretty liberterian with her views on 'their is no society'??

You have just self-selected yourself for public imbecility.

Shurely the wonderful freemarketism that has made a mess of EVERY poor country in this land and haha, now the US and UK was...doh! All about being 'completely free' so much so that if you see your neighbour struggling with a bag of shopping you just kick them in the neck and take their shopping, cause, well, it is a FREE MARKET eh? And each to their own, right?

You don't have a clue, do you? First we have Corporatism in the UK, not a "free market". Libertarians are very much into property rights, as in the rights of the neighbour to keep their shopping. Socialists will kick the employer of the neighbour and take a big chunk of their earnings to pay their voters (there is a word for that...) so that the neighbour only has enough left to buy a little and so would not be struggling. Rule of Law - an alien concept to many Lefties.

The minute you weirdos' actually bring proof or evidence NOT in the blogsphere but in the 'real world' that most of us HAVE to inhabit but you guys don't it seems, then you will probably be even more popular..

The world did not being in 1917 or 1946, ok?

Better still a strategy that shows how the large percentage of working poor class people would survive under your laissez faire attitude, would surely have some BNP supporters begging to fund your idealogies!

There you go, trying to cook up such a link. The BNP are Authoritarian and Left Wing and don't think anyone is going to buy your crock. The BNP are the antithesis of Libertarianism. As for working class people surviving, well, as long as they were not demanding for someone else to pay for their living. Socialism shows how working class people are truly exploited, turned to clay, treated as vote fodder.

Goos stuff Sara. I like to see what you think of t...

2009-06-10T14:19:55.581+01:00
Goos stuff Sara. I like to see what you think of this:

https://democracymovementblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-campaign-not-liberal-not-democrats.html

I think this might be up your street.

Wayne, this is what I don't understand about y...

2009-06-10T14:08:43.814+01:00
Wayne, this is what I don't understand about you 'liberterians' all theory and no practical suggestions or EVIDENCE that it's worked to back you up!!

Why don't you guys join the Tories?? You are more right the centre, actually there is NOTHING centre about you lot! It's rather childish that just because you share the same few letters 'liberal', you stay in a party that, gulp, cares about SOCIETY because DUH we have to live in it!

Shurely dear fella, maggie thatcher was pretty liberterian with her views on 'their is no society'??

Shurely the wonderful freemarketism that has made a mess of EVERY poor country in this land and haha, now the US and UK was...doh! All about being 'completely free' so much so that if you see your neighbour struggling with a bag of shopping you just kick them in the neck and take their shopping, cause, well, it is a FREE MARKET eh? And each to their own, right?

The minute you weirdos' actually bring proof or evidence NOT in the blogsphere but in the 'real world' that most of us HAVE to inhabit but you guys don't it seems, then you will probably be even more popular..

Better still a strategy that shows how the large percentage of working poor class people would survive under your laissez faire attitude, would surely have some BNP supporters begging to fund your idealogies!

Hopefully this is food for throught but I doubt it...

P.S Check out Chile under Pinochet, they deffo had no Govt say! Maybe that's what we should have eh??

Coolio nice guy..

@Chris Lovell, That's nonsense. I don't k...

2009-06-10T12:51:07.745+01:00
@Chris Lovell,

That's nonsense. I don't know where this trouble maker tag has come from. Since when has honesty of view been trouble making? Only when social democrats don't like what they hear I guess.

Classical liberalism does not need constant evidence within the confines of the blogosphere, that is amply covered elsewhere.

The truth is that social democratism is not serving the LDP well at all. Voters who want that will simply vote Labour. We should "at least" make a *strongly* differentiated social liberalism with a clear (to the public) classical liberal wing.

This will give voters something to think about instead of thinking of the LDP as "wishy washy".

The party needs more Sara Scarletts and less mealy mouthed apparatchiks.

This would give us the sort of political legitimacy to keep Cameron's Tories honest in government... and in my view the natural and production opposition in the short/medium term. Perhaps even daring to think of government one day without being truly delusional.

The alternative is 3rd place or worse in perpetuity. HAve a look at what has happened to the Australian Democrats (a liberal democratic party that went too far to the left), total oblivion, even with PR.

A great interview by the sounds of it. Your commen...

2009-06-10T12:47:10.327+01:00
A great interview by the sounds of it.
Your comment about the next generation of Tories being more libertarian certainly sounds interesting as well.
Sara's probably right about the patronising of party youth, and not just for the LDs- I'd have thought that the very existence of a 'youth wing' was patronising though...
I think I share her apprehension about Cameron not giving civil liberties back. Would be nice to be proved wrong though!

There's no point in being a trouble maker for ...

2009-06-10T12:04:21.724+01:00
There's no point in being a trouble maker for the sake of it. Liberal Vision has a habit of making sweeping statements, backed up with little evidence purely to get attention within the party. It's pretty pathetic really.

TB couldn't help but ask how many Liberal Y...

2009-06-10T11:52:23.142+01:00
TB couldn't help but ask how many Liberal Youth hacks practice what they preach on the pot front and he can't work out if the reply of "not enough" was a joke or not.

Cheap shot, Mr Bear - you don't have to smoke cannabis to want it legalised. I'm a case in point: I don't smoke either tobacco or cannabis but I've been won over by the argument for legalisation.

But Sara is right to be sceptical of the liberal instincts of the Conservatives. The idea that everyone should join one of the two "parties of government" in order to "make a difference" is what drove Peter Hain to Labour, and look how far that's got liberalism.

Must say I agree with her on the David Cameron won...

2009-06-10T11:23:27.446+01:00
Must say I agree with her on the David Cameron won't deliver real freedom.

He'll make a start, and I I'll probably vote Conservative next election even if Maddie does turn up in David Cameron's garage (however offensive that statement was, it's funny because it's true). But you can't call Lib Dems a broad creaking spectrum of views without admitting the same of the Torys. Libertarian views are ascendant right now, but they still have to compete with the kind of views other Tory governents have had.